Lysine taker experiences discomfort on Cardio-C

The discussion of the Linus Pauling vitamin C/lysine invention for chronic scurvy

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Lysine taker experiences discomfort on Cardio-C

Post Number:#1  Post by ofonorow » Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:02 am

Hello Owen,

I obtained your email after reviewing the Cancertutor.com’s Articles about Heart Disease and Linus Pauling which lead me to the VitaminCFoundation.org web page.

I apologize for this long email, but I wanted to try to explain what steps I took so you would better understand my inquiry.

I THINK I may be experiencing a reaction to the Cardio-C which I ordered and received on Saturday, June 15, 2013, and I’m not sure how to relieve this feeling or if my reactions are serious.


Let me give you some history and then ask if you know of anyone with the same reaction as I describe.

I’m female, 49yrs old. Never had any ‘history’of heart issues other than the ‘irregular’ beating from time to time. I exercise 4-6/days a week and before Dec. last year, used to jog twice a week for up to 4 miles each. I’m
6ft tall, 190lbs and not overweight or anything. No high blood pressure or anything else.

For the past 2 years (2011-2013), I have been taking powered L-Lysine(by http://www.Bronsonvitamins.com) once a day(up to 6,000*mg*) on an empty stomach to help lessen the monthly HSV2(Genital Herpes) outbreaks I was having over the years. I was not using Vitamin C at that time. Only this year, I'd take 1,000-3,000*mg* Vit C in the form of the Emergen-C type...but only once a week or so and even then, not every week.

In June '13, I was told about Linus Pauling/cancertutor and high dosage Vitamin C for heart disease. I have incidences of ‘hard-pounding’ heart beats, sounding so loud, I can hear them in my left ear when lying down;
sometimes seeming to ‘skip-a-beat’ or beat fast then normal again. I’ve been to Cardio Doc’s; been tested(EKGs/Stress tests), always being told that I’m fine, nothing wrong with heart. I know better. Nonetheless, my ‘symptoms’ persist.

Ordered the Cardio-C(2 jars) and receiving it Sat, June 15th started my first doses. I decided to stop my normal single Lysine powered 6,000mg doses and *just do* the Cardio-C since it had Lysine in it.

The goal was to do the Cardio-C to try to relieve the irregular heartbeats I had been having almost 2/week …so I started with taking the Cardio-C-- * TWO* scoops *3 times a day* with food.

(This being 5,000*mg* Vit C; 5,000*mg* lysine; 1,000*mg* Proline …..ALL taken 3 times a day)

I did this for 10 days to June 24th . At that time, I started to notice that my gut/mid-section seemed ‘inflated’ almost like I was pregnant and my back from my shoulder blades to just at my lower back was very sore, stiff,
feeling swollen FROM THE INSIDE…but not looking that way at all, just feeling really ‘funny/different’. Also I noticed at this 9-10 day mark that when I’d eat something very small, I’d feel like my insides were being
inflated with a balloon. This scared me, since I’ve never had such discomfort from taking a new ‘supplement’. So I reduced the does on the 25th(Day 11) to 1 scoop twice that day. BUT I still felt the swollen feeling after
taking the product and after eating. By June 26th (Day 12), I decided to STOP all doses until I could ask you about this. I did not take any of the Cardo-C or any other supplement since June 26th. By Sunday, June 29th, my front mid section was not as swollen and did not feel as sore..but the area around my back-just below my shoulder-blades and toward my sides still felt stiff or numb almost. It’s not painful, just a nagging tightness/soreness when I inhale deeply or reposition my body in bed or sitting in a chair.


I thought it may have come from the excessively high dose of Lysine I was taking (15,000*mg)* along with the 3,000*mg* Proline which I’d never taken before.

Still it is July 1st and I have not used the Cardio-C since June 25( 6 days) and my back is still tight/sore. My front area is still stiff/sore just over my ribs and along the under-side of my breast area toward the
center of my chest.

So, after all this history, may I ask:

1)Have you heard of anyone having this type of reaction?


2) I’m *sure* I was taking too much, but do you know if the kidneys/spleen/liver can be damaged from such high doses of Lysine* OR *Proline over an 11 day period?



3) I don’t’ know if I was to acidic before I started the CardioC or if that matters. I’m not sure how to tell if your body is acidic or not.



4) I’m thinking that when my back heals, I will try the Vit C (alone) and take the Lysine separate from it and remain at 6,000*mg* like I was doing before. Just increasing the Vit C to 10,000*mg* or so. I’m just not sure
if I should try to find powdered Proline somewhere…..

**

*Your thoughts* on suppliers of single does Proline and/or Lysine?

* *

Thank you very much for your time and your input on this matter.



Shirley



Yes, 5000 to 6000 mg of lysine daily is usually the maximum we would recommend, although I personally know of people who have taken a lot more without any issues. However, your 15,000 is probably the highest intake that has been reported to us. (2500 mg lysine for 30 days cleared my uncles 50-70% carotid blockage.)

Linus Pauling recommended taking vitamin C every day - and not skipping a single day.

Irregular heartbeats are often related to the manganese/magnesium ratio. If you add up the manganese in all your supplements, it should not be over 2 mg - at 20 mg it will cause an irregular heartbeat. Can take 60 days to clear (detox) after you reduce. Adding more magnesium may help (as they both compete in the heart.)
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Re: Lysine taker experiences discomfort on Cardio-C

Post Number:#2  Post by Johnwen » Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:09 pm

When I first read this, it sounded like a kidney problem to me.
Then later this evening I read it again and it all kind of came together.
Taking extremely high doses of L-lysine would cause the body to produce high levels of protein, more then the body could use so it has to get rid of it.
Which is where the kidneys come into play. Now do this for an extended period of time and the kidneys being over worked and damaged. Start allowing the protein to exit in it’s unprocessed form. This in turn causes a deficiency and muscles start to break down which now signals the liver to increase bile production so more fats and proteins can be drawn from the gut. The increase of bile causes a chemical imbalance in the gut which results in gas and bloating. Now lets add a ph lowering substance (V-C) and you got the making of some pretty toxic reactions.
Having a blood test during this time frame would send most doctor’s into panic mode and would probably be shunting this person for dialysis.
Fortunately she seems to be recovering quite well from it. However there could still be some residual damage done to the kidney’s at this point I would suggest.
Water and plenty of it!! Enough to make your urine almost clear. No soda’s, tea or coffee! Fruit juices and some low fat milk are OK!
Cut down on the exercise do less but don’t stop. Like if you did 10 of something do 5 and don’t allow your muscle to get to an ache state.
Eat like a rabbit a little bit often. Natural Carb’s fruits, Veggies, Greens. Stay away from salt and only small meat portions once a day.
Supplements NOOO!!! CALCIUM!!! V-C 2x 1000Mg.Am-PM for now.
NO L-Lysine for now also. Get a good Multi about a 30 day supply and take one a day. L-Arginine 500Mg. A day. Arginine competes with L-Lysine and is displaced by it so you need to get this back up.
Do this all for about 1 Month.
Then you should be able to resume your normal routines.
I would suggest try going with 1 scoop Cardio C AM
And 1 Pm for starters and limit your daily intake of L-Lysine to about 4000Mg.
You can then boost your C levels with 1000Mg. Caps during the day.
For about 6 month’s.
Then keeping the L-Lysine levels down to under 6000Mg. Hopefully not too much damage occurred.
A blood test would be real interesting in your case, to say the least!

Naturally if you don’t feel right or you experience any problems it always best to check with your doctor.
To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism. To steal from many is
research!

randian

Re: Lysine taker experiences discomfort on Cardio-C

Post Number:#3  Post by randian » Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:58 pm

Just so I understand, the suggestion of possible kidney issues is from the 15,000mg daily of l-lysine, and the Pauling recommendation of 5,000mg or so of l-lysine should pose no problems to people without pre-existing kidney disease?

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Re: Lysine taker experiences discomfort on Cardio-C

Post Number:#4  Post by Johnwen » Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:00 am

The powers to be recommend between 5000-9000Mg. Of L-Lysine per day, without side effects.
The upper limits of supplementing should not exceed 6000Mg. This leaves a 3000Mg. Buffer zone for intake from diet which may vary by what is consumed and keeps the person in the known safe zone. As while as offering the maximum protection.
People with known Kidney, gall bladder or liver problems should consult their doctor before taking this supplement especially if their taking meds for these problem’s.
To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism. To steal from many is
research!

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Re: Lysine taker experiences discomfort on Cardio-C

Post Number:#5  Post by ofonorow » Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:08 am

oh YES Owen, I would be interested!
I have read the Forum response from Johnwen. Off to the health food store for some Vit -C & L-Arginine. The Multi-Vitamin I have HAVE CALCIUM in them as well as Lysine. I don't want to take them. I'll get a separate L-Arginine and single-item Vit C 1,000mg (without anything else added)

I DO have the Blood test I took on June 24(at the end of the 10 day period of taking the Cardio-C).
I HAVE scanned them and attach them to this email.

Also, as an update. the Doc DID want me to get a consult with a GI doc for an Upper & Lower endoscopy when she saw the June 24 blood test results(this was on June 27 that she informed me). I have a GI Consult tomorrow(JULY 11 at 10:45am EST). I'm informed that if necessary, the GI doc could get the upper AND lower endoscopy procedure done within a few days of tomorrows appointment.

I am STILL having the bloating feeling in my gut and back as of today(July 10th). I am NOT taking any supplements as of today...I STOPPED Everything.

Per Johnwen, I have been drinking more water. My urine is white..will continue the water. Would adding fresh lemon juice help flush the kidneys at this point???

I did TRY the Cardio C again on July 6(4 days ago)..only taking 1 scoop 3 times on that Saturday. By the next morning(5 hrs later actually) on Sunday July 7th early morning(2:am)..the bloating/stiffness and back pain was back and VERY painful that I could not get back to sleep. Needless to say, I am reluctant to take the 1 dose Cardio C twice a day as Johnwen recommends IF my kidneys might be in danger.

I do not have ANY jars of Vit C (alone). I can get some from the VitaminShoppe, but I'd rather have powder form instead of the capsules. Was afraid of the caps sitting in my gut when it's already swollen.

I have some Kale and Spinach here at home and I have placed some in the Vitamix and drank it this afternoon. Stomach/back is painful when I got up today. I work nights, so I have to go in tonight 6pm.



Thanks
S.


Linus Pauling warned not to stop vitamin C - even for a single day.
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Re: Lysine taker experiences discomfort on Cardio-C

Post Number:#6  Post by ofonorow » Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:30 am

ofonorow wrote:Trying to copy her labs
DO8: 12108/1963
Lab: CBC (INCLUDES DIFF-PLT)
Order Date )6t2412013
Name\Collection Date t6t24t2013
WHITE BLOOD CELL COUNT 4.6(3.8-1 0.8 Thousand/uL)
RED BLOOD CELL COUNT 4.21 (3.80-5. 1 0 Million/uL)
HEMOGLOBIN 11.3 (1 1.7-15.5 q/dL)
HIEMATOCRIT 34.1 (35.0-45.0 %)
MCV 81 (80-1 00 fL)
MCH 26.7 (27-33 pq)
MCHC 33.0(32-36 g/Dl)
PLATELET COUNT 151 ( 14O-40O Thousand/uL)
RDW 14.8(11 0-15 0 %\
MPV 8.6(7 5-1 1 5 fL)
ABSOLUTE NEUTROPHILS 2259 ( 500-7800 cells/uL)
ABSOLUTE LYMPHOCYTES 1960(850-3900 cells/uL)
ABSOLUTE MONOCYTES290(200-950 cells/uL)
ABSOLUTE EOSINOPHILS 69(15-500 cells/uL)
ABSOLUTE BASOPHILS 23(0-200 cells/uL)
NEUTROPHILS 49.1 ( %)
LYMPHOCYTES 42.6(%)
REACTIVE LYMPHOCYTES 0.0( %)
MONOCYTES 6.3( %)
BOSINOPHILS 1.5( %)
BASOPHILS 0.5( %)


[-ah: COMP METABOLIC PANEL W-eGFR
)rder Date ,6124t2013
tlame\Collection Date ,6t2412013
SODIUM 138 (135-14ri mmol/L)
POTASSIUM 4.2 (3 5-5 3 mmol/L)
CHLORIDE 104 (98-110 mmol/L)
CARBON DIOXIDE 26(19-30 mmol/L)
GLUCOSE 85(55-99 MG/DL)
UREA NITROGEN 11(7-26 MG/DL)
CREATININE 0.88(0 50-1 .1 0 mo/dl)
BUN/CREATI NINE RATIO N/A(6-22 )
CALCIUM 9.1(8.6-10.2 MG/DL)
PROTEIN TOTAL 6.8(6 1-8 1 G/DL)
ALBUMIN 4.2(3 6-5 'l G/DL)
GLOBULIN, CALCULATED 2.6(1.9-3.7 G/DL)
A/G RATIO 1.6(1.0-2.5 )
BILIRUBIN. TOTAL 0.8(0.2-1.2 MG/DL)
AST 24(10-35 U/L)
ALT 17(6-29 UtL\
ALKALINE PHOSPHATASE 56(33-115 U/L)
NON-AFRICAN AMERICAN eGFR 77(> OR = 60 ml/min/1 73m2)
AFRICAN AMERICAN eGFR 89(> OR = 60 mUmin/1.73m2)



Lab: LIPID PANEL
)rder Date t6t24t2013
!ame\Collection Date t6t24t2013
CHOLESTEROL 226 (125-200 MG/DL)
TRI-RIGLYCERIDES 57(<150 MG/DL)
HDL CHOLESTEROL 77 G or = 46 MG/DL)
LDL CHOLESTEROL. CALCULATED 138 (<130 MG/DL)
CHOLESTEROL/HDL RATIO 2.9(0.0-5.0 )
NON.HDL CHOLESTEROL 149( mo/dL)


Lab: IRON-TOTAL IRON BIND CAPACITY
Lab: IRON-TOTAL IRON BIND CAPACITY
rder Date 3
Page 1 of2

]
lection Date 3
IRON 58(40-175 UG/DL)
TIBC 382(250-450 uoldl\
%SATURATION 15(15-50 %)



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