Vitamin C Forum

IMHO there is no need to add insulin to this infusion. The reason why is that high dose intravenous ascorbate cause a surge of insulin from the pancreas and blood glucose levels go below 20. Fortunately, ascorbate crosses the blood brain barrier easily and the brain can run on ascorbate, which utilize the same channels as glucose. The insulin, therefore, probably poses no risk but also no benefit.

High Sierra Medical wrote:high dose intravenous ascorbate cause a surge of insulin from the pancreas...

That's an interesting statement. I have found the literature in regard to the effect of Vit C on insulin secretion to be somewhat confusing. For example, a 1993 study suggests that ascorbate inhibits rather than stimulates insulin release. However, this was an effect demonstrated on isolated rat pancreatic islets in vitro, and the ascorbate concentrations tested were only up to 400 uM. So its difficult to say whether this is even pertinent to the effects of mM concentrations from IVC in vivo in humans. A 1965 study in rats that were given very high IVC (700 mg/kg) showed no visible difference in degranulation of pancreatic B-cells under the electron microscope (a visual indicator of insulin secretion) and no lowering of plasma glucose. However, when the rats in the same study were administered high intravenous doses of DHAA, degranulation of the B-cells was pronounced and the rats were "hypoglycemic 6 hours after every injection," leading them to conclude that the "primary effect of DHA is an exaggerated secretory response of B-cells."

So I'm curious that when you say "high dose intravenous ascorbate cause a surge of insulin from the pancreas" whether this experience has been with high dose IVC alone, or with IVC plus menadione? As the menadione appears to increase the oxidation of ascorbate and therefore the amount of DHAA.

And just an interesting aside. You stated in another thread that "I prefer Vitamin K3, aka Menadione. This is synergistic with ascorbate in the treatment of cancer." This study, Oxidation with air by ascorbate-driven quinone redox cycling demonstrated that Vitamin K1 is also an excellent redox-cycling catalyst, although only half as efficient as K3. They didn't test Vitamin K2 in this study, but there is at least some evidence here and elsewhere that all forms of Vitamin K may be synergistic with ascorbate in the treatment of cancer, although menadione may be the best.

Please, do not compare apples with oranges. My statements are based on clinical observations on real patients (many real patients, not lab rats).

Ascorbate, alone, produces a profound drop in serum glucose (i.e. Menadione is not necessary). You can promote whatever theory appeals to you. They are still theories. Interestingly, even though serum glucose remains in single digits, because the brain can utilize ascorbate as an energy substrate people's mental faculties are preserved.

Another phenomena that I have observed is a client coincidentally, had blood work performed shortly after a Vitamin C push (30,000 mg) and the Total Cholesterol result was 0, yes zero. Makes me wonder where the Cholesterol was sequestered so rapidly.

High Sierra Medical wrote:Ascorbate, alone, produces a profound drop in serum glucose (i.e. Menadione is not necessary).

Thank you for your reply to my question:

OxC wrote:I'm curious that when you say "high dose intravenous ascorbate cause a surge of insulin from the pancreas" whether this experience has been with high dose IVC alone, or with IVC plus menadione?

Sorry that that question appears to have offended you in some way.

Another phenomena that I have observed is a client coincidentally, had blood work performed shortly after a Vitamin C push (30,000 mg) and the Total Cholesterol result was 0, yes zero. Makes me wonder where the Cholesterol was sequestered so rapidly.

This is a very interesting conversation and observation above.